What Makes Artist Partnerships Meaningful? with Dave Godowsky
- Evan Nickels
- 3 days ago
- 22 min read
What makes an artist-brand partnership meaningful, beyond a simple shoutout on social media? Today I talk with Dave Godowsky, a musician who’s also worked the other side of the street – in Artist Relations, A&R and with brands that musicians know and love. We talk about how brands can foster authentic artist relationships, the value of word-of-mouth marketing, and how artist feedback can be best used in product development. Dave also shares his experience of partnering with artists like Jacob Collier and Alicia Keys. It’s a really fun conversation
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Episode Transcript
Machine transcribed
[00:00:00] Dmitri:
Dave Godowsky is a music industry innovator who worked with Jacob Collier to develop a custom software instrument. Dave also founded the Native Instruments Artist Board, where he brought together luminaries like Alicia Keys, Ludwig Goranson, Run the Jewels, and Young Guru to shape brand and product strategy.
He once performed on the Late Show with David Letterman, with his parody rock band, Mr. Brownstone, and that's just one of many career highlights. Over two decades, Dave has worked at the intersection of artistry, technology and business launching creator driven campaigns. Companies like Native Instruments, Izotope, and Sony music, and leading high impact artist partnerships that help shape the music tech landscape today.
Today he runs Godowsky Artists Relations advising top tier music tech brands on how to connect authentically with the creative community. Hey Dave, great to have you on the podcast.
[00:00:49] Dave:
Hey Dmitri. Thanks for having me.
[00:00:52] Dmitri:
So people in the pro audio business talk about artist relations, brand ambassadors, creators, and influencers and artist collaborations, even artist branded product lines.
Paint us a picture for the most common categories of artist relationships in the pro audio industry, especially as it relates to the marketing function. Set us up here.
[00:01:09] Dave:
Sure. First I think it's good to define artists, 'cause in pro audio, everyone has a different picture in their mind of what an artist looks like.
The way that I've always thought of it is just people who make music for a living and people who are directly responsible for shaping the way the music sounds and what people are gonna hear. So the categories are usually producer, engineer, and artist, as in like performing artist.
And then within engineers there's usually recording engineers, mix engineers, and mastering engineers. So those are the categories of artists.
[00:01:43] Dmitri:
Right. Okay.
[00:01:43] Dave:
but to get back to your question about, the categories of, what the relationship looks like, it's a good question. I think it's often misunderstood by companies because they fixate too much on the marketing and I think companies overvalue the marketing aspect of the artist relationship.
Although it is important, but there's a lot more. One of those categories would just be word of mouth, which some people might argue is marketing. So maybe that's not actually a difference, but. I've always thought of it as something separate, because it doesn't really function within the constraints of conventional marketing departments, at companies because it lives and breathes in the real world and it's people hanging out with each other, people at a bar together, people texting each other.
It's just, actual human beings talking to each other. There's nothing tied to the business about it. The only thing that really drives it is people using a product and really loving it and wanting to talk about it.
[00:02:37] Dmitri:
Are you saying like having artists talk about the use of a particular product is almost the most valuable thing out of those relationships?
[00:02:43] Dave:
Yes, and that also just comes from me talking over the past 20 years, to artists and asking them how they heard about different things, especially as my career developed and especially in the last five or ten years when I was more closely associated with some of these companies.
I was just curious how they came to use these products and it feels like a hundred percent of the time, it doesn't even feel like 99, everyone always just says the same thing. They'll be like, “oh, so and so showed this to me. This person, you know, it's always so and so. I saw so and so using it.So and so told me that I had to get this plugin or something.”
So I sort of saw my job as connect with all the so and so’s if they're all using the thing, everyone's gonna end up buying the thing. It's not rocket science, but that is the number one thing by far that people say when you ask them how they came to actually buy.A piece of gear in the music business.
[00:03:37] Dmitri:
So what does that end up looking like for you in artist relations? Are you doing different types of deals or, I mean, is it just giving free products out to big artists who are very influential, who would talk to a lot of people? Or are there video collaborations, or are there product lines that are artist specific?
How does that all work together?
[00:03:54] Dave:
Yeah, well, there's still the other categories, like the word of mouth is just one. To answer the question about the different ways that these relationships manifest themselves and how artist relations manifest itself in pro audio. There's also, like you said, product specific, signature product lines that happen.
All the marketing, the core marketing things with marketing assets, like getting a quote to put on the website or a testimonial on Instagram or a video on YouTube or showing up at an event. And there's core marketing functions like that, which are great, but it's just one thing.
And then there's also the product development insights, which I think is one of the most important things because, That's not just the marketing of the product, but you need to have a product that's relevant and the closest thing to a crystal ball for where the industry is going is when you talk to the sort of top tier artists.
So companies would be wise to integrate, to listen to artists. So that's, just another category of what the relationship should entail,
[00:04:55] Dmitri:
Right, so it's not simply getting them to amplify what you've already got, but it almost becomes a product development component. Sort of like, oh, even before you ask them to use something, you're asking them what would they use, and then you're building it with that in mind.
[00:05:08] Dave:
Absolutely. Yeah.
[00:05:10] Dmitri:
Very cool.
So what are some of the coolest artist and instrument partnerships you've seen over the years?
[00:05:15] Dave:
I mean, selfishly, I really liked the one that we did with, Jacob.
[00:05:18] Dmitri:
Yeah. Tell us more about it.
[00:05:20] Dave:
That was just cool because it came from us sitting on his couch and saying, “let's build something,” and literally scribbling stuff on a piece of paper and saying, “what should this be?”
And we ended up making a software plugin that captures the sound of his audience singing that you can play like an instrument. It's basically what he does at his live shows where he plays his audience and kind of controls them and tells them when to change notes and what vowel sound to sing.
And then the way he changes it, it ends up sounding like a spontaneous composition. So we basically captured different audiences singing every articulation of every vowel sound and all these different shows, and then turning it into an instrument that you can play like a synth, and making it free. And it was just really cool.
And it had a higher purpose. I mean, it was really, a lot of it came from thinking about the purpose of music and how it brings people together. from all over the world and the idea that this instrument could literally bring voices together from all different places so people can be creating music and harnessing the sounds of different actual human voices.
It was just really cool and it felt really inspired and, I think it, came together really well. And it came out right when his album did, which was also kind of interesting because we timed it so that he could use it on his album, his last album, Jesse, volume four, which ended up doing really well.
It was nominated for Album of the Year at the Grammys, and a huge part of that album is the sound of this software instrument, which is the sound of his audience's singing. So it really brought all these things together in a way that felt like it had real purpose and meaning to it. So, yeah, it was fun.
[00:06:55] Dmitri:
This is a Native instruments, Jacob Collier audience choir plugin. Is that right? And it's free.
[00:06:59] Dave:
Yep.
[00:07:00] Dmitri:
Wow, that's wild. And it is cool how it's kind of like ties together the musical brand, his musical brand, but it's a perfect fit for native instruments.
[00:07:08] Dave:
Totally. Yeah. it was just a perfect storm of things coming together that kind of was just a win-win for everybody.
[00:07:14] Dmitri:
Tell us about another one. Is there another cool artist instrument partnership?
[00:07:18] Dave:
Maybe.
I mean, there's a bunch of 'em. We did the Alicia Keys, her CP 70. It's that kind of her iconic sound from Girl on Fire, like a very distinctive keyboard sound that we were able to really capture the sound of her specific keyboard.
We've done a bunch of artist partnerships, one that I really liked that wasn't, you know, not just to think of sStuff that I was involved in, but I've been watching the
Orchid synth, which was Kevin Parker from Tame Impala, it felt like a masterclass in artist branding and marketing.
It was really, they've done a, really good job of rolling that out. I have no idea who was behind it or anything.
[00:07:55] Dmitri:
Yeah.
It's a fun instrument to see too. When you see the videos, it makes you feel like, I could pick this up. I could make these sounds, I'm gonna sound just like them. Like Tame Impala
[00:08:03] Dave:
Exactly.
[00:08:04] Dmitri:
Super cool. Nice. it's hard for me to ask the next question based on the examples you just gave, because my question is, do these things really work? Obviously the ones you just picked really worked,
[00:08:13] Dave:
Yeah.
[00:08:13] Dmitri:
But I'm curious, when you widen out to, just in general, like the more typical, the more everyday kinds of artist relationships that happen, what evidence do you have of impact and how does it compare to, or work alongside other marketing activities like press or ads or social media or events?
[00:08:30] Dave:
Yeah, there always has to be some faith in the value of the work, usually on behalf of the CEO or the CMO because there isn't always evidence of it. It's one big difference between artist relations and. maybe a social media manager or someone in sales or you know, ads other people have, ads.
There's things you can point to, numbers you can point to like how many clicks something got or how many sales it converted to and specific numbers you can use as proof where with a lot of the artist relations stuff, all that stuff is happening behind closed doors. if the biggest producer in the world starts using,
A specific microphone and telling everyone, “I can't record without this. This is the best thing ever.” And everyone around them starts buying it and it's just, there's this ripple effect. Oftentimes no one ever knows. Even the company might not have any idea that that was happening, because there's no, it's all behind closed doors.
So there has to be some faith in it. But I think most companies in music, Or most even to scale out more, most businesses would say knowing your customer is probably the number one rule in business. So if you're a company whose every product you make is something that you use to make music.
Every customer you have is an artist. Every customer you have is using your product to create art, to make something out of nothing. So I think it's just inherent that your customers are gonna look up to artists and be informed and inspired by artists. So you need those people to advocate. For you and to use your stuff, and even more so, people who have been in the industry long enough know that if the artist community doesn't advocate your product, doesn't adopt your product, it's gonna be really hard to have any widespread success.
It's sort of like inevitably, every path to success goes through artists at some point.
[00:10:22] Dmitri:
I mean, I assume there's probably a lot of companies, people that are in, your kind of role with artist relations that aren't, I mean, you've been doing it for a while and you have a particular approach.
They're not as maybe holistic about that sense of this goes as far as product, as deep as product development, you know?
[00:10:37] Dave:
Yeah.
[00:10:37] Dmitri:
I assume there's a lot of, like, let's get a testimonial or let's get a video. Do those kinds of things work as well?
[00:10:42] Dave:
I think there's some value in them.
There's definitely people who see that stuff and it gets them intrigued. I think. it's sort of like seeing a review of an album or something, like if you see a good review it's not gonna make the artist successful by itself or whatever, but when it's part of a bigger campaign.
In order to succeed, you need to have all cylinders firing. Every spoke on the wheel needs to be intact, or the wheel's gonna be bent or whatever. So it's one of many critical things, but I do think it's a little overvalued, especially when there's so much noise.
You have so many companies posting pictures of people that are giving a quote about the thing, and you see it and say like, yeah, okay. They probably gave you a free copy of that thing and you said a nice thing and they put it on their Instagram or, I think people are getting a little desensitized to it, so maybe the value of it has gone down a little, but it's better than not doing it.
[00:11:36] Dmitri:
Yeah. Yeah. What does it take to get artists on board with musical instrument and pro audio companies and what are the artists looking for?
[00:11:43] Dave:
I think the artists are just looking for authenticity. They're looking for actual value in terms of their creative process. I think a lot of people at companies get so wrapped up in the business, the corporate approach to what they do, that they forget that artists are just making music, like they're not thinking about OKRs and KPIs and.
Different quarterly reports and sales thresholds and they're just making music. So it's very simple. Like if you can help someone do what they do. If you're talking to a chef in the kitchen and you're like, “Here, this knife is even sharper, or, this is a spice that you've never used before, but it tastes amazing.”
Or you have something that actually inspires them or that they actually find useful. That's huge. They're looking for just actual something that they actually want that actually helps them do what they do because at the end of the day, it should be about them, like they're the ones.
That aren't just generating revenue, they're generating art. Like they're bringing stuff into the world that actually makes the world a better place. And that's gonna be around after we're all done and gone. So they should be the most important people in the process.
[00:12:57] Dmitri:
Have you ever had a remit or a charge, a brief something where you're like, “Oh, I don't think, I don't think that's what's gonna get artists on board.”
And have you been able to, like, shift that to something and convince a client or a company that you work for that they need to shift the expectation?
[00:13:12] Dave:
I think. Yeah, it's probably happened a little bit. but thankfully not that much. I mean, I can't think of any cases where I was like, yikes, like, that's someone's way off base with something.
I think I've just been fortunate to work with companies that generally get it. I'm really lucky for that because it's helped me develop my own career. Like I would never possibly have the career that I have now if it wasn't for the companies I worked for kind of helping me build it.
[00:13:37] Dmitri:
Yeah. All right. We gotta take a quick break and when we come back, let's flip it. I wanna know what are the criteria that the brands have for those types of partnerships or artist relationships? We'll be right back.
Okay, we're back. Dave, I wanted to ask you, what criteria do the pro audio brands have for partnerships or other artist relationships
[00:13:56] Dave:
In general? I think probably too many. I think, oftentimes those criteria come from overthinking it. I think the only criteria they should have is that the artists are good at what they do and are generally respected in the field and have some influence on other similar people.
Because oftentimes there's probably a lot of people you could have as a guest on the podcast who would answer the same question with. They need to have this many followers with this percentage of engagement and that has to be able to do X, Y, and Z. But I've just found that a lot of those metrics are a little misguided and the most valuable things just come from authentic relationships and people who actually, are just good at what they do.
[00:14:42] Dmitri:
Yeah. Okay. You said it straight up. I'm curious just to widen out, what trends are you tracking as it relates to the pro audio business?
[00:14:49] Dave:
I mean, I know it's cliche, but I have to say it, that AI is definitely the one. It's something I'm super excited about and I'm very curious about.
I'm sure there's gonna be a lot of companies falling on their face. There's gonna be a lot of really cringey moments that we look back on 10 years from now and laugh. There's also going to be things that we look back on as turning points that reshape the entire industry. So it's really exciting. and it's not like we're gonna see this happen over the next 10 or 15 years.
It's like. It is over the next year or two. Like it's all happening right now. So it's, yeah, it's exciting. I feel like the Michael Jackson eating popcorn meme.
[00:15:33] Dmitri:
You sound very hopeful and optimistic about it all. You're looking at the AI tools for helping artists and creators. Is that what you're thinking of?
[00:15:39] Dave:
Yeah, I mean, art always wins, Like it or not, like people will find some way to survive. Like art will survive. It always evolves. Usually when people, like looking at it as a sort of doomsday scenario or, who are really freaked out about it, are usually just comparing it to whatever happened most recently.
So like. Are things gonna look different than they did 15 years ago? Yes, of course. But if you look back on the last few hundred years, things change to the point of being unrecognizable every 20, 30, 40 years. Like, if you look at the role music played in culture and the way that music was created and shared and performed.
It wasn't like there was one shift that happened. There's been like 20 different shifts and they're all drastic and there's gonna be 20 more. So the one thing that doesn't change is people use music to express something that they otherwise can't. And that's it. And that's just the art of it.
So people are always gonna find a way to do that, and that's a beautiful thing. And I think AI will just ultimately help people do it.
[00:16:46] Dmitri:
Do you think more people will be creating music as a result?
[00:16:49] Dave:
Definitely.
[00:16:49] Dmitri:
And do you think that'll change the standards around what is created or who is creating, or the caliber of the song, or?
[00:16:58] Dave:
There's definitely gonna be, probably more bad music out there. I don't know if it's really a good thing or a bad thing. I mean, it'll just, there already have been millions of mediocre songs being written. It's just, most of them never left that person's bedroom. You know, there's people strumming guitars coming up with terrible ideas that were inspired by other songs, and usually, it doesn't get past their bedroom door.
But now those songs could be published and, or they obviously already are. So, yeah, I'm sure there will be more of it, but it's also true that as there's a proliferation of this stuff, I think it'll create more of a desire to find good stuff and, gonna create more desire to have, filters and subcultures and, and.
Ways to fight through all the noise. It'll force more of those to happen. So it could be a good thing.
[00:17:47] Dmitri:
When you look at the industry as a whole, what growth areas get you most excited about in the world you operate in?
[00:17:52] Dave:
I don't really think about it that way, in terms of growth areas, because I really just am thinking about music.
Like, I know it might sound like a cliche or something, but, even our whole industry is changing so much. It changes so fast, and there's so many things that are, one month it's the thing that you're crazy if you don't jump on the bandwagon and everything is gonna go in this direction, and then a month later it's gone.
And, you know, I try not to get too caught up in any growth area really. I'm just, trying to help people make music.
[00:18:25] Dmitri:
Nice. that sounds very freeing, Dave.
[00:18:28] Dave:
It's nice. I highly recommend it.
[00:18:31] Dmitri:
Nice. I think I'm gonna get some rub off from this conversation. I'm curious, what's a kind of partnership that you have on your bucket list to accomplish someday?
You've already done a lot, you've already shared some great examples here, but what's next? What would be cool to do?
[00:18:43] Dave:
Oh, that's a good question. I mean, there's a lot of things. I have a million different ideas, swimming around in my head. A bunch of 'em. on the back burner loosely thinking about and dipping a toe into.
But one thing that I've really never done is, an event. I've been thinking about bringing people together in real life in a way that feels special and meaningful. And you've done this.
[00:19:07] Dmitri:
Oh man, I gotta get you out to our Creator Fair. You would love it.
[00:19:10] Dave:
Yeah. I think, maybe, that's part of what's inspiring me to think about this.
Because I feel like, even just talking to you about it, that's a really smart thing to do and to bring actual people together. Again, there's just something about human relationships and people hanging out in a certain place at a certain time that maybe we don't even totally understand why, but for some reason it's so important.
So I'd love to help do something like that a little more specifically in the space I'm in.
[00:19:36] Dmitri:
Yeah, absolutely. That sounds great. We'll get you signed up real quick here. We'll be on the beach in Santa Monica, so.
[00:19:42] Dave:
Oh, I love it.
[00:19:42] Dmitri:
It's a good spot. it's funny to hear your, your responses in succession like this, Dave, like optimism and excitement around ai and what would you do next?
Get people together, humans in the same space.
[00:19:54] Dave:
Yes, they can coexist.
[00:19:56] Dmitri:
Yeah. which really I think displays a real open-mindedness and, makes me excited about the prospect of how we could collaborate on something. 'cause I like the way you think. Well, as we wrap up here, one of the things we like to do is expand our network.
And you're tapped into a whole world and you being on this podcast is like a. I don't know, a radio signal out to the whole music tectonics community. I'm curious if you could name a couple of your favorite emerging music creation brands.
[00:20:23] Dave:
Wow, there's so many. It's sort of like naming your favorite artists or new songwriters or something.
There's so many that I know that are really great people doing great work. I'm just gonna think of a couple where I'm only thinking about. How it's used to make music. And there's one company called Ink Audio that they make plugins, they make little software instruments. but they're just really good.
Like, I don't even know how to explain it really, just everything about it. Somehow creates a little bit of inspiration. I think it's just one guy that makes them, in Nashville.
[00:20:58] Dmitri:
Huh. That's cool.
[00:20:59] Dave:
But they're just, and I've used a bunch of them and it's just a mysterious thing. I don't know how to explain it, but on paper it's no different than hundreds of other things.
But for some reason, the sounds. Immediately feel good to me and they make me wanna start making a song or just from hearing a drum sound or a keyboard, a little piano sound or a little mysterious tone. The people who are making it, I think are just really tuned into. What feels good as an artist?
[00:21:28] Dmitri:
Well, I just did a quick search and I'm finding things like, pedal steel guitar and banjo, but then they have sounds called “The noise you never hear” or “The quietest band in the world.”
[00:21:38] Dave:
The quietest band in the world. I've used that one a bunch. It's just lots of like tiny little sounds like when you just want a really subtle, little sound to accompany what you're doing. It's just, it's so cool. You gotta check 'em out.
[00:21:51] Dmitri:
Awesome. Love that tip. What else you got?
[00:21:53] Dave:
There's also an, I mean the whole category of apps, just iPad apps, I've gotten really into just like using an iPad as an instrument. I've produced a couple records recently that have iPad apps all over them that, you would never know hearing it.
There's so many great ones. and a bunch of them are from established companies. There's one called Ribbons. I have no idea who makes it, but it's called Ribbons, and it's sort of like a pedal steel, but you can just create these drones and the interface, you just glide different notes up and down.
It just really is conducive to contributing to a song. somehow I end up putting, I need to stop using it. ' cause it's gonna be like, I've got too much, just figure the sound. Yeah. It's gonna be like, oh, here we go again. but yeah, there's so many cool apps out there, for making music and it's like a new way of artistically holding the iPad in your hand and.
The way you touch the screen is actually becoming like a creative relationship, that I find really interesting and it's worked For whatever reason,
it's found itself on records.
[00:22:53] Dmitri:
I'm definitely getting me ribbons. That looks good. You got one more for us.
[00:22:56] Dave:
I mean, another really interesting one, this is from a company that's already pretty well established, but I was just thinking of them in terms of apps, is XLN audio.
They have a thing called Life and it has an app, although I think it's mostly just an iPhone app. I just use it on my phone. But you use it almost like you're recording a voice memo and just make a bunch of sounds like you could slam a car door, get your dog to bark, hit a glass with a fork and throw something down the stairs and then hit stop.
And that's all you do. And then you go to your laptop and all those sounds have miraculously been sliced into one shots noise, reduced, edited, and turned into beats. And then it's just making beats out of these random sounds you recorded.
And then, but they're not just like a flat wave file of a beat or something.
You can edit every aspect of it. Like you can go in and resequence it and change any filters and you can tweak everything and you can just generate like infinite beats so you can really explore with it. And it's using sounds that obviously no one else has. They're personal to you. It somehow is. I find it really fun and inspiring and just cool.
[00:24:04] Dmitri:
I feel like you should send this over some sounds from Life and from Ribbons that you've made that we could put on the podcast.
[00:24:10] Dave:
Yeah. Or we should, play this podcast into life and have it make beats out of our conversation.
[00:24:16] Dmitri:
Have you done it with voices?
[00:24:17] Dave:
No. Let's do it.
[00:24:19] Dmitri:
I love the sound of this. there's probably some AI happening there to do that much stuff automatically.
[00:24:23] Dave:
Yeah, definitely to some extent it's, but it's really well done.
[00:24:27] Dmitri:
I love these examples that you brought. I love that you're bringing it straight outta your own music, making life and studio.
You're not just shouting out a business you're working with, but actually have played with it, mixed it on the records or enjoying it, seeing yourself doing more with it. That's super fun.
[00:24:41] Dave:
Well, that's where this all comes from for me, really. 'cause I, this all started for me as when I was, whatever age, 18 or 20 or whatever, you know, I was convinced I was gonna be a songwriter, come hell or high water and that's all I wanted to do and I didn't care about if I had money or not, or anything else. That was who I was and what I was gonna do.
And then, very quickly learned about things like rent and college loans and car payments and bills. So like, I lasted a few months and was like, wait, how does anyone do this?
But still at heart, it's my favorite thing in the world is writing songs and making music regardless of how many people hear it. So that still is a big part of everything I do is trying to just think using that side of myself.
[00:25:25] Dmitri:
I suspect 99.9% of the music tectonics guests, the 370, some people that have been on this show also are like, that's the core.
Same with the music tectonics attendee base. It's one of the great things about not only are all these folks coming together to share these kind of skills and ideas and thoughts on the industry, but we're all. Somewhere at some level making music as well, which is great.
[00:25:48] Dave:
I love it.
[00:25:48] Dmitri:
You've really brought some great examples, some fresh stuff as well.
And, appreciate you sharing your insights about what it's like to collaborate. I really see the origins of your philosophy in artist relations from your start and your kind of soulful center as a music creator yourself. This has been a lot of fun, Dave.
[00:26:04] Dave:
Yeah. Yeah. Thanks for having me.
[00:26:06] Dmitri:
Thanks for being here.
Thanks for listening to Music Tectonics. If you like what you hear, please subscribe on your favorite podcast app. We have new episodes for you every week. Did you know? We do free monthly online events that you, our lovely podcast listeners, can join? Find out more at musictectonics.com and, while you're there, look for the latest about our annual conference and sign up for our newsletter to get updates. Everything we Do explores the seismic shifts that shake up music and technology, the way the earth's tectonic plates cause quakes and make mountains. Connect with Music Tectonics on Twitter, instagram and LinkedIn. That's my favorite platform. Connect with me. Dmitri Vietze, if you can spell it, we'll be back again next week, if not sooner you're listening to music tectonics.
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The Music Tectonics podcast goes beneath the surface of the music industry to explore how technology is changing the way business gets done. Weekly episodes include interviews with music tech movers & shakers, deep dives into seismic shifts, and more.
