Conference Conversations: Creative Collaborations Everyone Can Agree To

This week, we’re continuing our Conference Conversations series from last month’s conference with a panel called “Brands and Creators: Creative Collaborations Everyone Can Agree To.”

This panel covers all things brand partnerships, from what makes brands say yes to working with artists, as well as some stories about what not to do.

This panel includes Ryan Roth from Pioneer DJ, Mario Ponce from Shure, Kate Sheets from Blipblox and is moderated by our very own Emily Francis.

If you’re looking to land your first brand deal in the new year, this one’s for you.

The News

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Episode Transcript

Machine transcribed

[00:00:00] Emily I'm Emily Francis, with Rock Paper Scissors, and I'm gonna let our awesome panelists introduce themselves.

 Let's keep it to like, I don't know. 30 seconds if you can. Sure. So that we can get to the, good stuff. Right.

[00:00:13] Ryan: Hey, um, I'm Ryan Roth. I am the Digital marketing manager here at Pioneer DJ slash Alpha Theta.

Been here for about eight years from St. Louis, Missouri. Originally. I live in Los Angeles now. pretty much a pioneer. I'm, I'm in charge of all of the, you know, influencer marketing, artist relations, and, uh, different verticals like public relations, any kind of like outward, you know, social media, customer facing campaign or marketing campaign.

 I've got my hands in it. I'm also a recording artist. as well.

[00:00:41] Mario: I'm Mario,

um, with Shure.

 and I've been in market development. I've been with Shure for about seven years. I'm a Southern California native out of San Diego. Born and raised in la and pretty much at Shure. we're in market development, so we're getting a, you know, in our brand in front of a unique audience.

We're engaging with customers. We're boots on the ground. we, deal with emerging artists. With affiliates, with influencers of all types in all different spectrums. and that's what, pretty much, what I do. yeah, that's it.

[00:01:15] Kate: And, uh, I'm Kate Sheets. I'm with Blipblox. I'm a co-founder.

 we're a two person, full-time, two person business. We have a lot of consultants and there are people that work with us, but because of that, I am very in tune with all the creators that we work with and who we choose. and excited to be on this panel and hear what some of the other panelists have to say and hopefully hear from some of you as well.

[00:01:37] Emily: Awesome. Cool. So our topic is brands and creators. Um, if any of you were there yesterday, I felt like it was kind of a great little, uh, appetizer to our panel today. So, you know, first question, just how much have you guys leaned into creator partnerships as part of your marketing strategy in recent years?

[00:01:56] Ryan: I can start. Yeah, maybe we just kinda go down the line if that works. Yeah, that's good. Yeah, creator partnerships. I mean, it's extremely important for us at Pioneer, dj. you know, everyone with a camera can be a creator at this point. you know, we have a very small team, so we really like rely on the customer to, you know, they're putting out content every single day, really trying to put their best foot forward, show who they are as a creator.

And, you know, I think. For us, UGC is just like very important, either reposting or working with creators to come up with, content that shows our gear in a unique new way. so I think that, you know, without the creator, without the. Dj, you know, pioneer DJ wouldn't be who we are today. So we really rely on it.

I mean, it's a pretty important part of our, strategy data.

Yeah.

[00:02:42] Mario: Yeah. Extremely important. hundred percent agree. I mean, the organic approach to dealing with customers and customer facing stuff is extremely important. So we lean into it pretty heavily. you know, we really rely on that organic approach for creators to use our products, use our microphones to do something very, very unique.

And it kind of brings like a unique organic approach to the brand that's extremely important. and we really, really. You know, lean into it because, it's a different part of the company that communicates this, you know, this sort of, I don't know, richness when it comes to the product, you know, it really shows people, what we do.

So we really, really lean into it, very, very much.

[00:03:27] Kate: And for us as a small business, it's extremely important because one, we learn what different things people can do with our instruments. If you don't know us, we're a niche, product. We make synthesizers and a groove box for, all ages, but definitely younger kids.

 and what. Is really exciting for us is working with creators and seeing what they can do with our instruments as adults. and then also broaden that into, kids. Uh, so it's actually working with creators has taught us about our business and about our customer more than, you know, if we. Tried to go out and, figure that out on our own.

We get a lot of insight from talking to creators and working with creators. and it's also a really great way for us as a small business to connect with other emerging, artists who might be in the same position as us and we can help each other, uh, grow together. And we've seen it happen. It's, it's really exciting.

Yeah.

[00:04:18] Emily: How do you all determine what creators you're going to work with and what are some things that creators do or can do that make them stand out to you? I'm sure you get dozens of emails every single day, so what are some things that creators do that make you wanna work with them?

[00:04:34] Ryan: Yeah, I look, I wish we could work with absolutely everybody, you know?

I mean, it's just there's not enough time in the day. yeah, I probably get hit up maybe. I don't know. I get probably get 20 emails a day from, creators looking to work with me. you have to vet them, you know, you have to kind of take a look and see like who's someone who's going to be professional, who's somebody who's gonna be like excited and, is it gonna be an organic fit?

 for me, I, a lot of times, unless there's like a new product launch, I don't really go out looking for creators. Um, I kind of. You know, we have a good, amount of people that we work with already. So, you know, either we will build relationships with certain creators and then we'll hit them up if we need help with like, pushing a product.

Or if there's someone who kind of comes out of the woodworks and I'm like, oh, who is this? Like, we should definitely work with this person. then we will take a look and see like what kind of, budget we can allocate for video production for that. but I would say in general it's a good mix.

[00:05:27] Mario: Yeah. I agree. And, you know, we do get hit up a lot. you know, think 20 emails of leads of people who wanna work with us. But for me personally, it's the uniqueness of your content. how creative it is, if it's unique, if it's different, it doesn't matter to me. Like the follower account or any of that stuff.

It is the uniqueness of you and how you engage with your audience. that's what I look for in a creator, because I think it's extremely important that you have like your own original voice that you're. Talking to your customer is very, very impactful. and that's something that I look for. and I go both ways.

Like sometimes I'll be doom scrolling. I'll come across something just like, wow, where did this come from? And then sometimes I'll get a lead and I'll, vet that lead. If you include your links, very important. Make sure to include all of your social links. Very important. and sometimes I, meet and find people that way, and then other times, you know, in places like this, meeting a lot of great people and seeing, you know, what's out there.

So.

[00:06:32] Kate: Yeah, I was gonna start with that, that events like this are such a great way to connect with people in person. one thing that's, uh, challenging for us as a small company is, and we all kind of were chatting about this, is, you know, when people approach you say, I want one. That's not really going to get you very far.

And it doesn't help us because as, they said, you have a lot of people approaching you. so generally what we like to do is, you know, look at obviously what content people are creating and how it might fit in with what we do. and it's a challenge 'cause we're a very, as I said, what we're our product is, is a different unique product.

And so we don't expect that people are gonna be playing with products. Just like ours on their, when they're doing content. But if it's something that we think could match with us, or the person approaches us with a really good idea, I think that's really exciting to us is when somebody already knows enough about our products that they say, I can see this.

Even if it's not specific, but I can see doing something with this. you know, we've had a lot of successes with creators who, who have ideas or general ideas and, then work with fitting our products into that. so that's one of the main reasons. Like they said, we really don't focus as much on, how many.

People are on the, you know, followers there are, because those, that, those numbers change quickly. And so somebody when you first start talking to them might have a small number and then by the time you actually get something out, suddenly they're huge. That happened to us with one creator. So, that's something we tend not to look as much at.

 then what the quality and creativity of what people are doing.

[00:08:04] Ryan: Yeah, and actually that's a really important point. I feel like for brands out there too who are looking for. Creators to work with. I feel like so many times they look for like the 1 million, 2 million, 3 million followers on Instagram or TikTok or whatever.

But, honestly, a lot of it is like you're kind of taking an a and r approach to it as well. Like you wanna see, you wanna invest in those artists like really early in their career and you wanna see the talent, for who they are and not just their numbers on social media. 'cause honestly, so many of those can just be fabricated anyway.

Yeah. and so we use tools and stuff to check if they're fabricated, but I typically like to look and see. their community. I like to look and see like, what does their community look like? so how many, like, you know, let's say they're posting, I dunno, their breakfast in the morning on, social media, right?

Like, how many people are like, oh, that's so cool. Or like, are they just getting, like, are couple bots that are posting, right? Like two comments now? I mean, like, you know, you wanna make sure that. You have an active, engaged community with, whoever, you're working with otherwise? I don't know that it, it might not go, uh, very far with that part.

It's the

[00:09:02] Mario: vibe. It's the vibe. Yeah. True. The vibe is very important.

[00:09:06] Kate: Mm-hmm. And also when, I'm just thinking of, we actually got, a manager who contacted us and we were in a meeting and. Instantly on this Zoom call. I was like, no, no, no, no, no. And I didn't even wanna know anything else because she was not interested in listening to us knowing about our product.

She didn't know anything. She came to the call completely cold. you know, and I, we felt terrible for her manager, 'cause her manager was lovely and seemed to know all about us. And it may have been a good. Fit, but that vibe was immediately off putting and it was like, no, that's not gonna work. Even though, you know, it could have been very successful.

 but, you know, you kind of have to pick between those things and, it probably wouldn't have been 'cause that vibe usually is your first instinct is usually right.

[00:09:52] Ryan: Yeah, definitely. I mean, like in terms of also like professionalism too. Like if the vibe is in shambles, like I'm not going to like, you know, wanna work with.

Said creator. really, I mean, in any sort of situation too. I mean, even just outside of influencer marketing, even like for a collaborating, like as a music producer or whatever. But yeah, I think that like working with creators who do know your product, if there's a, an organic fit, that's great. but if there, I know so many people will just like spam,

To all the music companies like, Hey, I want free gear. Hey I want free gear. And it's like, you know, those are just going straight to the spam mail. You know, it's like we want like curation. We want like interest and Yeah,

[00:10:29] Mario: interest in the brand and like folks that are already, like for example, with Shure.

Someone who's already using a Shure mic with their content is. That tells me you already know the brand. You already know, you already like it. It's already making your life better. So having that familiarity with the brand is, is something that I also look for. I don't specifically look for it. Sometimes I'll look for something that is really cool and I'll say, well, you would sound better if you had a Shure microphone.

So,

[00:10:57] Kate: yeah, and for a company like ours that's smaller, if you're approaching a smaller company like ours, we certainly do not expect you to have a lot of knowledge about our product. But to be open to. Testing it out, seeing what it can do, seeing how you can incorporate it into what you're already doing.

[00:11:12] Emily: I feel like what I'm hearing is like follower count is. Kind of less important, like opposed to engagement and like the quality of the content is that Absolutely. Would say that's accurate.

[00:11:25] Kate: Absolutely. Yes.

[00:11:26] Emily: Yeah. And the vibe. The vibe, yeah. Yep. How much creative freedom do you guys like to give people who you're partnering with?

Like is it, do you like it and prefer when they come with like a bunch of creative ideas or do you like to kind of. Maybe meet in the middle or give them guidelines or how do you like to go about that?

[00:11:46] Kate: I can start with that. yeah, so, funny enough, like when we were talking about this before, I thought to myself, oh, you know, why I want people to come with ideas.

But then as I'm thinking about who has actually been a successful creator for us, a partnership, oftentimes there isn't a specific idea, but there is more than. I'm just gonna take a video of two seconds of me playing with your thing. So, you know, those ideas sometimes come with all of us connecting with each other.

It doesn't necessarily have to come with a very specific plan. but getting an insight of how our stuff might work, with what they already do. And that's the other thing, is not being too outside of what is already going on on a channel. So if we look at a channel and there's just nothing that looks like.

Anything related to what we do, it's probably not the right fit. and you know, obviously having some concept and some ideas is good, but having, you don't have to come with a specific list, I'm gonna do this and then this, and then this. 'cause that doesn't feel organic. And I think the best creators do organic things.

[00:12:51] Mario: Yeah, absolutely. But I'm a control freak, so I have a list of things. No, I don't do that. but, you know, It is important to, uh, offer an outline, maybe offer, especially like for us, we use a creator, content for different things. So like, let's say we're launching a new microphone, right? And we want to have a bunch of content in the pipeline for people to go and engage with this new mic.

So because it's new, because it's fresh, there may be like a little outline there. To kind of push you along to help you, but the most important thing is I'm talking to you because I like your content and I want you to do that content for whatever it is that I've got. So that's, that's where I'm at when it comes to that stuff.

[00:13:34] Kate: You be you, right? I, exactly. And I

[00:13:35] Mario: give, do what you gotta do. We're here to en encourage you to do it so. That's, that's where I'm at. Yeah,

[00:13:42] Ryan: no, I, I respect that. I think that like an outline or a creative brief, like we will often send out like a creative brief to people, especially for a new product. Like how many of you guys out there are DJs or like have DJ'ed before?

Yeah, so like we, whenever we launch a new product, there's like a manual that, you know, I mean, I have to read it 'cause it's my job, but, when we send it to a content creator, we like to give like, kind of some of the main points. Like, all right, like, so for example, we just did a. DDJ Groove six, influencer, sort of project with a few different content creators out there.

 people who may have like, kind of just started DJing or who have been DJing in our mobile DJs for a while. but, uh, maybe just like kind of stay in the controller world. And, uh, yeah. So we sent like a creative brief that said. You know, hey, maybe make sure to like play with these three features. here's a couple references to get you guys I, you know, started.

And then also like, I mean, 'cause we're a global company, we have brand guidelines. So like a lot of people will end up saying Pioneer. And so we'll have to say very clearly from the get go, like, hey, like, make sure you guys say Pioneer DJ, and well now that we have a rebrand, pioneer DJ Alpha Theta, please use that in your, you know, copy.

Please, please tag the right. Account so many times. It's crazy. I feel like 50% of the time they tag Alpha Theta Global, which is our European team, and uh, we're Alpha Theta, USA. So I'm like, you know, I make sure that's very clear in the creative brief, but otherwise, like, have fun with it. You know, just like do something different, do something weird.

I mean. You know, I love that stuff. I love when people think outside

the box.

[00:15:13] Mario: Totally. And we're global too, so we have guidelines. So just like suggested copy, maybe you'll get and then you could do whatever you want with it, you know? But like I get a lot of Shure microphones that's technically, we are Shure microphones, but that's not us.

We're Shure. So there's like little things like that that you may not know. But yeah, it's, you have to kind of, you know, do it because that gives me approval to post it and all that kind of stuff.

[00:15:41] Kate: One of the things that we is important to us is actually talking about the quality of the video and the angles in which things are, are shot.

 we've actually had some, what content that we, you know, it sounded good. And it seemed good except you could not see the product. Um, and so, you know, or the product was, was sort of hidden in a way that you couldn't really tell what, they were doing. so, you know, thinking about that, I think, um, when you actually come to deliver the content is, you know, make sure that you can see what the product is, what your hands are doing with it, if that's our, or the sound of it.

If for the microphone, you know, that's really important and the lighting. The, you know, sound, all of that stuff is like, really important. And it's so disappointing when all those first introductory things click and then the content you get, you're like, why can't really use this? Um, you know, it's always really sad.

And then you get to a point where you, you don't necessarily wanna ask that person to, to reshoot everything. So, you know, making sure that once you actually get to the point where you're making the content, really make sure you're, you're making that product look good. Sound good.

[00:16:50] Ryan: Yeah, totally. I mean, we, I can't ex, there's so many times where like I've gotten the first draft back and they've said the like a completely different product and I'm like, this is not the product that you're demonstrating.

But, but yeah, it is nice 'cause you know, if you get it done right the first time, I know that the creative brief kind of does help them, do it the first time so they don't have to keep refilming and, and unfortunately, if, that happens, if they're kind of a newer creator, then that's great and I'll work with them and I'll just say like, Hey, look like.

 let's get this done right? 'cause I know that you're, you're really passionate and, your stuff's really cool. So I would love to put this on our page. but we just have a few tweaks, you know, so, yeah. And I think if, they are like, the more professional and the, easier you are to work with, like the more likely we'll wanna work with you in the future on, further projects and stuff.

[00:17:32] Emily: Awesome. what would you say is like. The differentiation between a successful campaign and an unsuccessful campaign? Like what are the things that you look at? Is it metrics or just vibe? Like what's the, what's the deal with that?

[00:17:50] Mario: I could start there. Uh, great question. you know, uh. What I determine is the engagement of the content.

So it's not about like what it looks like, what it sounds like. I'm assuming that that's gonna be kind of taken care of because you're the person I wanna work with. I dig your stuff, right. It's first thing I do is I dig into the comments and I scour the comments, and I see what the engagement is like with that community.

And if I see that there is a lot of engagement, there's some back and forth from the creator and their audience, and there's a ton of engagement, then that tells me this was a successful campaign. It's not necessarily the clicks that I get back to Shure or the clicks to, you know, whatever they're getting their clicks to.

It's more about that it resonates with their audience, and that's what it's about. It's, you know. You're helping them make them sound better, that they would take it to their people to resonate with. That's basically what it's about. So that's what I determined success is that you dig into the comments and you see what the engagement is.

And if there's back and forth, then that tells me, yeah, this was, um, impactful.

[00:19:00] Ryan: Yeah, and I mean, I echo that as well, like engagement, like all the way, a hundred percent. I mean, you could have, I mean, we, we just did a. DDJ Flex two, influencer sort of thing. And, it was a global deal. So we did five in America, five in, like each country, like kinda some of the major countries around Europe.

 and then we did like five in Latin America. And, uh, yeah, and essentially like if, you know, I'd say on average, like everyone kind of averaged around like. 50 to a hundred thousand views. So then you kind of take a look at the comments and you see like, well, who actually like cared the most? And I'll, I'll literally go in and screenshot those comments.

Like, some people will be like, oh, look at this person. Like maybe if they're in a different vertical than DJing, like, you know, oh look, you got, you know, you got a big brand deal that's sick. like I'd love to check this gear out. You know? And that's like a huge thing for us if they're getting people to be interested in the gear and then we'll wanna work with them again.

And also like. At the very bare minimum. I mean, if we're gonna work with somebody again or what's successful is like, kinda like what I was saying earlier, like, did you follow the, the directions like of the assignment, right? I mean, if, if we want you to post a video about our flex two controller, and we need you to send it to us for review, but you just go ahead and post it anyway without sending it to us.

I dunno if that's happened to you guys we're like, this is probably not a successful campaign because we want, you know, things done correctly. But yeah.

[00:20:21] Kate: For us, we actually sort of have two different ways. We work with creators, so sometimes creators will create content for us that is mostly used for our.

Uses and not, we're not trying to connect with their audience necessarily. Then we have ones where we're trying to do both. and for us, yes, the comments are huge. Uh, we just had a really big person, post, do a really cool post and from our side, if it was posted on our site, I think it'd be great.

Most of their comments were about their kids and people connecting with their kids. And so you're like, well, that was a success in that our product is out there. Bunch of people who probably never heard of us now are seeing this, but we didn't get that engagement of, what's that gear? Oh, what's that? You know, people are actually asking about a speaker that they were, it was in the shot instead of our products.

So, you know, but on the other hand it was somebody big. They're naming us. That's exciting. that's probably content that's gonna be more valuable to us to use, on our side than necessarily getting some of their audience to come over to us. So there's kind of different ways to use content as well.

And I think the metrics for how you decide what was successful or not. Depends on what you're actually trying to use it for. but comments are definitely the way that you can and, you know, having us engage in the comments too. we've had the opposite thing happen where we had something go up and, and the whole thing ended up a little unexpected.

It was very exciting. And then to see the comments in there was, great and really exciting and something that then we could engage with.

[00:21:51] Ryan: Yeah, I actually also on the metric thing, I, completely forgot to mention, but, uh, we also look at CPM, so cost per mil. you know, there's, with digital marketing and influencer marketing, I mean, you can do, so many things, paid media.

I mean, you can really reach, audiences that you wanna reach right now with like a few clicks. But the reason that we wanna work with these different creators and influencers and artists is, because they have a really, like special curated community of people. and they're dedicated. And so we'll take a look and see like, well, how much did this campaign cost?

 And, you know, what was the cost per a thousand views? Uh, and we'll compare that to kind of across the board, like our paid media campaigns, and also like maybe other creator campaigns that we've done.

[00:22:31] Kate: Yeah, I mean something just 'cause it's coming up to mention a small company like ours is really gonna need to work with somebody who's willing to let us use their content and ads because that's, you know, we're still in a, growth stage and that's, we can't just rely on that one post you did.

We really need to be able to monetize that post, to, and, you know, sometimes it's a slow burn. Sometimes it doesn't really hit and start to get those conversions until it's been out there for a little while on our side. So, you know, that's something that's really important to us too, if we're working with creators, is, them being willing to, do that with us, give us those rights.

Yeah.

[00:23:08] Emily: I would love to know, and we don't have to put anybody on blast. Okay. But have you ever had a campaign that did not go as planned either positively or negatively? Again, we don't have to name names, but you know, we all, we wouldn't mind knowing the t, but, but I'm curious if you've ever had anything that like went totally differently than you expected in either a bad way or a good way.

[00:23:32] Ryan: Yeah. I'm sure we all have a, blacklist of artists, right?

[00:23:35] Mario: No, never.

[00:23:36] Ryan: Oh, no, no, of course not. I can start actually. yeah, I mean, trying to keep it like generally positive. I mean, we, yeah, I mean, there's totally tons of artists that we'll reach out to or they'll reach out to us and we will get halfway through, a campaign and they'll just like disappear from the face of the earth.

And I'll be like, well, you have the gear. You have signed a contract, like you should probably probably deliver the content, so we're not gonna work with you anymore. Like, that's just, that's just that.

[00:24:00] Emily: Fair enough.

[00:24:00] Ryan: but I mean, and there's, that's happened. I mean, more often it doesn't happen.

Right. It's, pretty rare that that happens, but it's, it has happened probably five, 10 times to me.

[00:24:07] Mario: Yeah. I think the thing that I get the most is you work with someone new and you know, send them the product. You work it all out. Maybe they'll do the content and then that's it. Like, there's no.

You, they either disappear, you don't see 'em anymore, there's no, they kind of ghost you, if you will. I think that would, it's happened. it happens actually more than you think. and I think that's kind of the worst thing that I, I've experienced is they just disappear after you put all the time in and you find them and.

You reach out and you do the emails and you go back and forth, or maybe you actually meet in person or like virtually and you have a discussion about the content and it's great. And it comes out and it's pretty good. and it's a start. And then, I don't know, that's it. Like, it's the end of story done.

[00:24:56] Ryan: Yeah, and I actually

[00:24:56] Mario: worst,

[00:24:57] Ryan: uh, just to really quickly, interlude here, I, I really like when we do work with new creators that we've never worked with before. Like, for that reason alone, like, I don't know, I, I like to start and dip my toes in with maybe a lower cost product. you know, like I do a lot of, uh, influencer campaigns with our headphones or with our speakers, you know, and they only cost a couple hundred bucks, so, so if it doesn't work out, it doesn't work out.

 worst case scenario. But I mean, typically if like higher price products, you know, I mean, we've all got pretty expensive products here, so. you know, you gotta kind of work your way up for those.

[00:25:26] Kate: I think we, I have two things. One is, on the less positive side, which was somebody where we negotiated something, where the initial video was gonna be kind of high value with the expectation we would get more things at lower value.

And then after he gave us the first one, he wanted to come back and get even more money and basically would not do anything else with us without that extra money. We felt so slighted on that. you know, that we were agreeing to an amount that we thought was more than we should have been paying to begin with, with the expectation we were gonna get more.

And, you know, that person has come back to us and said, you know, not, I'm sorry, but. Sort of, oh, I'd still love to work with you. And we're like, yeah, but you already kind of messed this up. So, you know, and it's, it's too bad in that case in particular because that was somebody who did make great content.

And so it really is, you know, you're sad when you think, oh, we could have done all these things, but then you approached us in such a way that really didn't make us. Feel good, but, the most unexpected one we had actually Emily was involved with. She, she found, so she's our PR person and, she actually found someone, I think right.

You, you sourced her and, got in touch. A little bit different outside of the box for us, but, we are outside the box for her, I should say. but had a great phone conversation, got her the product, and she was still working out what she was gonna do, and she just happened to be interviewing another influencer and pulled it out out of nowhere.

And he just, he did the coolest thing and so we ended up with her. You know, sort of moderating him, playing with the instrument, having never seen or heard of it before. And the comments in that particular video were like, so awesome for us that it just went beyond. So that's why, you know, you don't always know what you're gonna get.

 sometimes it is that, negative side of, not getting what you want a bad way, but in this case it was not expecting to, to have actually two influencers. although that did complicate us. Being able to use that content. So, we can't actually use it in any of our ads because of the other influencers.

So, you know, there's good and bad of, that. But

[00:27:36] Emily: yeah, that was a fun one. Can we say who it is? Sure. It was, uh, you guys know Emily Harpis and Anthony Fantano? Yes, that's what I was gonna guess. It was. Yeah, it was. So there's, did

[00:27:46] Kate: you see the video? Well go check it out. Because he at first was like. I don't know what this is.

And then all of a sudden he starts playing it and he gets into this groove with it and it was so fun for us to sort of see him. discover the product as well. And, then as he's jamming, it gets cooler and cooler and cooler. And so then all the people watching it we're engaging with that and that that's exactly who we are as a product.

So he was

[00:28:11] Emily: like, I'm gonna start a synth punk band. Yeah, exactly. It was so fun. Yeah. That was such a good one. Yeah. cool. Well, we have about 10 minutes left, so maybe we could open it up to some audience questions. Yeah.

[00:28:25] Speaker : I feel like I'm making some assumptions and I guess I just want to check them.

Like, are these paid relationships that you have with these, these creators? Are they in kind, like how much are you paying or budgeting? And, and how do you kind of check your ROI around that in, in that respect?

[00:28:44] Ryan: Yeah. This is, that's a really good question. Um, yeah, and we didn't actually get into the, the, the kind of the compensation part of it much.

Huh. So. in general, I would say, every brand is gonna be a little bit different in how they do partnership deals. And like I, for example, like as soon as I started working here, it's like, you know, eight years ago, I never used the word like sponsor, right? Like, we don't sponsor artists, we don't sponsor DJs.

We partner with them and a lot of it is gonna be content partnerships, it's gonna be organic, it's gonna be, you know, long-term partnerships with people that we want to, uh, you know, foster this relationship where they're using our product. we're putting them on and they're putting us on.

And so in terms of like the bare minimum, it's product, right? Bare minimum is like, we're gonna send out product to certain artists, certain, you know, creators. 'cause they have to have the product to

 create the video, right? Or the photo.

[00:29:31] Speaker : They keep the product afterwards.

[00:29:34] Ryan: Very, yes. Very often they do. Yeah. Now it depends.

So there's a few different. types of creator and, uh, you know, we've got your music tech reviewer, right? Who doesn't keep the product. They'll review it and send it back. Um, and those, types like the Andrew Huangs of the world, you know, they're going to review it, they're gonna send it back, you know, DJ mag, review it and send it back.

But if you are working with somebody maybe in a different vertical or somebody, you know, we're, we'll, we'll consider different arrangements and, I would say in terms of compensation, like. Without getting into numbers, well, I'll just put it this way. We had somebody reach out to us and, uh, ask to work with us, and they asked for, uh, $40,000 for a, uh, YouTube video, and we laughed at them and said, that is not even anywhere close to the budget that we have for video production.

So. It would be a stipend, like a video stipend to help them produce it. Right. the script, the video, the talent, the time. Right. but in general, I mean, no one's gonna get rich off of that. Yeah.

[00:30:26] Mario: Yeah. I mean. It basically said the answer I would give. usually it starts with product.

That's where it begins. and sometimes the review, the unboxing of the reviewers, they'll send it back. Even though I'm like, you could keep it. They'll send it back anyways.

[00:30:41] Kate: Yeah, we do that too.

[00:30:42] Mario: Yeah.

And I think it's just because they want to keep their channel, their integrity or whatever they could say.

If this was, you know, sent to Shure. or sent from Shure But we sent it back.

[00:30:52] Ryan: Right.

[00:30:52] Mario: But most of the time, I, you know, it's a, that's part of the compensation is to have the product so you can use it in the future. and yeah, like you're not gonna get rich off this stuff. Like, I've had people who, you know, YouTube video, I started $25,000.

Okay. Like, awesome, like

[00:31:13] Kate: good luck with that.

[00:31:13] Mario: That's not gonna be from us. But you know, it's, you know, but it happens and we have to be honest about it. Like, you know, the way that you're going to, make some money is your monetization, is how you, on your end convert that, content into some kind of monetization for yourself.

[00:31:32] Kate: Yeah, I think

[00:31:32] Mario: sometimes there's a stipend. Sometimes there's just product seeding, you know?

[00:31:36] Kate: Yeah. To me, I mean that's, it's part of, you know, this is where it becomes an ecosystem, is that you've got this now product that now you can use for other things, and you know, your creativity is what's actually driving your monetization.

Relying on brands like this to. To pay your bills is not, is probably not gonna work out. but for us, you know, it does start with the product. and often we will give a, stipend in addition for the learning curve. But, you know, those people that we've worked with for many years, that becomes.

 other ways to get revenue from us. So, you know, they're performing live, doing something, they're going to events like this. There are all sorts of different ways and that's somebody that we've built a relationship with. So yeah, it might start with gear and a little bit and then build into more opportunities, to, you know, make money in other ways.

Yeah,

[00:32:30] Emily: yeah.

[00:32:30] Speaker: On that. working with a brand that doesn't necessarily have budget, but has lots. Of product to seed and gift, how do you incentivize the talent that you are sharing that product with and how do you like see how you can get them to the next level? Have you kind of them along the way to go from a strictly geared relationship to, to.

[00:32:51] Mario: I think it's consistency in your content. So like you're, starting out with the product. Seeding is your sort of entry into this relationship with a brand. Right. And you wanna see it through. So, and it's gonna take time. Because, on speaking for myself, on with our brand, we have budgets and we have to adhere to those budgets and we have to talk about ROI to the people who are in charge.

So if I say, well, I wanna see, you know, so and so some product, they're gonna look at that and they're gonna see what the content is, right? But think of it as your doorway into that relationship because it will eventually lead somewhere if you're consistent with your content. If you're engaged with your community, if you're using that, product that we seeded to the best of your ability, to the point where we're like, yeah, we have a new product coming out, and you did such a great job with the last one, I'm calling you or I'm emailing you because I know.

That you, you are gonna make some amazing content

[00:33:52] Kate: and being responsible,

[00:33:53] Mario: you are gonna make some amazing content,

[00:33:55] Kate: being responsible. Like when he contacts you and says, like, you did great, get right back to him. you know, and follow up because, you know, goes both ways and, not ghosting.

[00:34:06] Ryan: Yeah, true.

And actually I would also say that, communication's so important. Like, I mean, if, if it takes someone like three weeks to get back to me on like, you know, a simple question, uh, it's gonna be difficult for me to kind of keep up with that relationship. But also I would say it depends on the brand, on like, you know, just, be honest with them and ask them like, Hey, like do you have a budget for this?

Right? Because if they have a budget, uh, and they see the value. you know, it's kind of like anything like, for people out there who, who, um, are recording artists like, and are looking for sync deals, sometimes the, company may have a budget to pay somebody for sync.

Sometimes it's big, sometimes it's small. So I think asking them that first is important. because, you know, I would say the other thing being like an organic fit. So like, I mean, I'm not gonna go reach out to like, you know, Maybelline for a deal. Like, you know, as an artist myself, you know, I, I'd probably reach out to some, a company that, I know I'm using their gear like regularly and I would love to do more content for them.

 and I think that if you're able to show, I mean, I really love it when an artist is super excited to work with us. Uh, I mean, even if they have like 10,000, five, 5,000, 10,000 followers, I'm like. Oh, this artist is gonna be really fun to work with and they're gonna put together some really cool content and so I would rather do like deals like that.

Honestly.

[00:35:21] Emily: Ryan, I'm just picturing you like with Guy Liner on Behind the DJ deck, brought to you hashtag Maybelline hashtag ad

[00:35:28] Ryan: I I was in musical theater, so there was a moment.

[00:35:31] Emily: Okay. All right. All right. Multifaceted. Yeah, we got time for one more.

[00:35:35] Speaker: Yeah. Um, do you work with events?

These festivals and so forth as well.

[00:35:42] Mario: Absolutely. we work with BMI, at like what we're doing with BMI is, we're at the BMI stage at like Lollapalooza city limits, and we're working with emerging artists in that way. We're like in the green rooms, we're demoing products, we're helping them on their journey. Um, we, sometimes we will just, it's a meet and greet If we hit it off, maybe it's a longer conversation with gear or something like that, but a lot of artists at that level are, you know, they're hungry and they're looking for, assistance with like microphones or maybe they don't know what mics to use in the studio.

And we'll help 'em out with that. So we definitely do. and the one off the top of my head right now is BMI is the one that we primarily work with.

[00:36:29] Ryan: We'll do the green rooms as well. we call 'em like artist lounges. And so like movement, Detroit, you know, EDC, like EDC, Orlando coming up, we're doing something, but pretty regularly.

 and you know, it's a different, tier. Uh, it's a different like, customer that we're working with, right? So, I mean, we've got our artist relations team, which deals with, the pro touring DJs. And then we've got, uh, you know, the influencer marketing and the content creation team, which deals with people who post more, you know, regularly on social media, video content.

 who may not be touring DJs, but may also be really passionate musicians. But in terms of events, uh, I mean, you know. Yeah. All, all the time. That's a big part of our budget.

[00:37:02] Mario: Yeah. Ours too.

[00:37:04] Emily: Awesome. We are at time. Thank you guys so much for being here. Give it up for your panelists. Thank you.

[00:37:10] Ryan: Thanks for having us.

[00:37:12] Mario: Thank you.

[00:37:12] Kate: Thank you, Emily.

Let us know what you think! Tweet @MusicTectonics, find us on LinkedIn, Facebook and Instagram, or connect with podcast host Dmitri Vietze on LinkedIn, Twitter, and Facebook.

The Music Tectonics podcast goes beneath the surface of the music industry to explore how technology is changing the way business gets done. Weekly episodes include interviews with music tech movers & shakers, deep dives into seismic shifts, and more.