Non-Traditional Artist Careers: Social Music Creation
- Eric Doades
- Jun 6
- 35 min read
Today we bring you the recording from our latest on-line Seismic Event, “Artist Careers in a Parallel Universe.” It was an exploration into the livelihood of three working artists; Clara Venice, Vivek Agrawal, and The Phronetic. RPS Chief Creative Officer, Adam McHeffey talks with them about how they are using new technology to fuel their creative visions, how they've built brand relationships, and importantly, how they're monetizing their networks. Great insight into how they make it work. Also! stick around for the news.
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Episode Transcript
Machine transcribed
Shayli: [00:00:00] Hey everyone. Welcome. Welcome to our May seismic activity. I can't believe it's may already. Time has flown by this year.
If you are here for artist careers in a Parallel universe, then you are in the right place. Settle in. As you know, these seismic activities are a regular monthly occurrence, so be sure to head on over to music tectonics.com/online events. To register for our June event, that will be startups, start Your Engines, and we'll be joined by guest Andrew Khan, managing partner at Yamaha Innovation Fund.
It'll also be the launch of our Swimming with Narwals Pitch Competition application. So. That is an event you don't wanna miss. If you have any PR or marketing needs, be sure to reach out to Jade at Rock Paper Scissors Biz to have a conversation about [00:01:00] working together. We've launched some new marketing services beyond pr.
We have a new PR club service for startups as well. So reach out. We would love to have that conversation about working together. And then finally, if you have not heard, we are thrilled to announce that the Music Tectonics Conference will be back in full force in Santa Monica. November 4th through sixth, 2025. Same. Great venues, same beautiful beach, unaffected by the fires. Early bird tickets are on sale now. So head over to music tectonics.com to purchase yours now, before that price jump. If you wanna get involved in the conference, feel free to reach out to me. Shalia at Rock Paper, scissors Biz. I would love to talk about speaking opportunities, partnership opportunities, and lots of other things. So now I would like to introduce the moderator of today's event, Adam Mcy. I. Adam is a creative strategist and marketing leader with a background in music [00:02:00] tech, nonprofit and consumer brands. He's led go to market strategy messaging and brand development for products that have raised over 4 million in crowdfunding, and now he's bringing that storytelling magic to RPS. He's a former touring musician, a published children's book author, and he is now our creative officer. So. Welcome to the stage, Adam. How are you doing today?
Adam: Oh, I'm doing great. Thanks, Shaylee. I've been to many of these events. This is my first time hosting one, so. Please everybody go easy on me. it's news as well that, uh, I've joined the Rock Paper Scissors team full time and I'm the new Chief Creative Officer and I couldn't be more proud because I get to meet all of you and work with so many fantastic brands.
Some brands that are in the room right now. I saw Troy from Blip Blocks join, and lots of other friendly faces as well. But today's not about me. It is about our [00:03:00] three amazing panelists. All of them are super serious musicians. All three of them have done the brand deals that everybody dreams about doing, and I'm so excited to learn from them.
Starting with Clara Venice. Clara is an electronic musician, a producer, a theramin artist, and she creates entire worlds. Through sound. She was dubbed Canada's theramin prodigy. I saw on a TikTok player that you practice theramin every single morning. I saw that. I didn't know people actually practiced it, but you really do and she's pioneering an entirely new approach to electronic music that bridges technology with the human experience.
We were just chatting about so many other things that you do as well. Sound baths for music therapy. You did a fashion show you performed at, so there's so much there. Thank you for being here, Clara.
Clara: Thank you so much for having me.
Adam: The Phronetic is a Colombian born Brooklyn raised, multidisciplinary artist, known for live beat [00:04:00] making, finger drumming, vocal productions.
He sings in English and Spanish. He's, he's done work with Red Bull. He's done work with Vice Media. Adidas a Kai. He's earned praise from Swiss Beats and Tash Sultana. The list goes on and on. I've worked him, myself, uh, I've worked with him myself multiple times. The Phronetic. Thank you for being here.
The Phronetic: Thanks for having me.
Adam: And finally, Vivek Agrawal.
You could call Vivek a mashup artist because he's famous on TikTok. For re-imagining Bollywood hits through an r and b lens, but really he's so much more than that. Uh, he's always leveraging music tech to showcase art and expand its reach. He created the Bose frames. He's worked with Slum Dog, Millionaire composer.
He is introducing a whole new category of immersive experiences to his audience of over 350,000 followers. So Vivek, thank you so much for joining us today.[00:05:00]
Vivek: Thank you for having me.
Adam: Whenever I moderate these panels, nobody knows who should answer the first question. Is it? So I just, I'm gonna, I'm gonna pick on each one of you and then we'll get into an open forum.
So my first question is for Clara. For those of you who don't know Clara, check out her, YouTube, and Instagram. It is a masterclass in branding. It is a masterclass in a cohesive look. And I think because of that, Clara, uh, people know you like instantly. So my question for you is, when you create such a recognizable aesthetic and you work with brands, do they embrace that consistency or do you have to shift your creative identity?
I. To meet their vision and what's the balance in general? This is really the question for artists in the room. How do you balance like your personal expression and brand alignment as you're thinking about your career? I.
Clara: I mean, I think that first and [00:06:00] foremost. Whatever I do and whichever brands I work with I, I genuinely have to love them and the products they make and their values because I think my connection with my audience is that, you know, I want them to trust me and know that, you know, I would never, um, try to sell, you know, I'm not actually in this.
To be an advertiser. I'm, I am an artist first and foremost, so I'm so lucky that the brands that come to me actually come to me because they embrace what I'm doing and they can see that my audience is very diverse and they like my approach, to making music. And so, yeah. So I, I think I've been really lucky and also.
just keeping that front. on the front burner, just to say, okay. Like for example, when I got to work with Artan, with the Orba and like, you know, the Corda, it's like those are [00:07:00] great instruments. They're so cool. Like I, you know, and it's really fun to, I. Learn those and to get to know them.
So, yeah, so I think that when you're authentic and when your aesthetic is a part of you and it's not a persona, then it's very easy to be consistent.
Adam: I think that's fantastic. Uh, my next question, again, just to break the ice and just to get everybody talking early in the game, The Phronetic. You let people into your creative process and I really feel like you were one of the first people to show just beat making on Instagram, which is obviously so big right now.
You really were at the forefront of that. I'm curious to know, like so much of what you do, if you go on your page right now, you're three pinned reels. Are half in Spanish and half in English. And I think that that's, that's really interesting and sets you apart. I'm curious to know by letting people in, by talking about that, by having this, this bilingual content and by speaking [00:08:00] to, to multiple communities, how has that helped you build your audience?
How has that opened up the door to different partnerships, and how has that served you over the years?
The Phronetic: Yeah. Well first of all, thank you, and thanks for having me. Uh, but kind. Of, to go off a bit of what Clara said, for me it's all about authenticity. And so, you know, I grew up in New York and I was born in Columbia and I'm bilingual. And so for me it was a natural thing for me to just be like, okay, I'm gonna make music in Spanish and English. And it was something that I started to do a little bit more recently. and I think that itself has opened the doors because I'm able to relate to multiple audiences. I mean, of course I can relate to an American audience because I live here in New York. but then obviously a Spanish speaking audience as well, because I'm Colombian and that's where I was born. And I think that. Authenticity is driving everything. I mean, people can tell if you're fake. People can tell if you're trying to put on a persona, if you're trying to do something that's inauthentic. And my MO, similar to [00:09:00] what Clara said once again, is that everything for me has to be authentic. So yeah, I mean, if anything, I feel happy that I could reach a wider audience that you know. I can relate to on multiple fronts, like an audience that I'm familiar with, audiences that look like me, audiences that are interested in what I'm interested in. And I think brands also wanna achieve that as well. So yeah, for me it was just natural and I think natural marketing and natural, community engagement is the best way to go.
Adam: So you one thing led to another and it just felt organic all the way through. I think that's important. Vivek, question for you. So I mentioned a little bit about some of the product development stuff you do. I would love it if you expanded on that, but really my question is, you've gone from doing so many different things.
Like you, you actually do have a role in technology, but then you're also just a great singer and a musician. I'm curious to know how your technology background [00:10:00] has shaped your approach to music creation and also. How it's affected the way that you think about monetization of what you do, your channels and your audience and all of that.
Vivek: Well, the one that's very kind of you to say. And again, thank you all for letting me be a part of this panel. you know, for me, I started out as someone who's both interested in technology. I studied math and computer science and undergrad, I. At Stanford. And then I was also very interested in music and so that's how I was struggling to live between those two worlds.
I had worked on music for Bollywood movies, but at the same time I had a pension for technology. And I was trying to figure out just very personally, how do I bring both of these interests, together? So my career started, you know, with a little bit of music and then a lot of music technology. And the problems that I learned about were really how do artists, they can create their art.
but how can they showcase it? how can they build an audience for it? And then ultimately how can they monetize it? And. You know, that's frankly like any business, [00:11:00] right? Whether that's a small business or a big business, you wanna make something interesting. You want people to enjoy it and you wanna get noticed for it.
But ultimately, how does this turn from a hobby into a business or something sustainable? You have to earn revenue from it. and. When I switched into becoming a full-time musician in 2020, a lot of what I learned is, one, how do I make the music that I wanna make, but then introduce it to the people who, who care about it?
Right? And frankly, that was a very, very long struggle for me. Um, you know, we, we talk about the following now, but up until last year while I was making a lot of music, I just didn't know how to get that audience and I will. Admit that frankly, that experience turned from nothing happening on any of my social accounts to going viral, overnight.
And it was literally, I think on Valentine's Day in 2024 where I posted one video on TikTok of one of my English remakes of Bollywood songs, and then it took off. What I learned from that experience is that then as an artist, it's [00:12:00] not just about making music, but also about building a channel, right?
And and building an audience. And the audience wants, if they like what they've seen, then you want to figure out how to give them more of that, and then also give them other things that they're interested in. So where technology started to help me, even just on the content creation side, was just, hey, understanding that I'm posting my music to TikTok and Instagram directly to my fans. I am seeing the response to it. I'm able to both see analytics data on how many people are viewing it, what's the watch time, where are they dropping off, I'm learning about what songs they like, what do they comment on, what do they want more of? And that helped me with turning what could have been just a moment in time into developing an audience around a bunch of music. so I think that's step one, and that that's kind of how the analytical mind was able to take advantage of that traction. I, I still believe that. there's not a science, there's an art to making something that resonates with people emotionally, and that that's the beauty of music and any sort of creation. where technology has helped though, is that once I [00:13:00] found the thing I. How do I keep growing on that? Which is I, I credit that for a lot of the momentum I have. And then on top of that, now that I have the momentum and I know the content that people really enjoy from me, one, how do I introduce that into ways that are monetizable?
and so a lot of what I've been doing is building, products that package this music in a way that people actually want to purchase. and then on top of that, shift towards other kinds of music that I like making that they might be interested in, just to. You know, keep feeding it.
Adam: That's fantastic. And I think everybody in the audience is thinking, wow, like these three people completely different facets of the same industry doing three very different things. So it's just. To all three of you. Thank you for spending an hour with us this afternoon. this is already a treasure trove of information
Let's just kind of get a lay of the land of the industry right now from the three of your perspective. My question is a general one. How do you feel the industry is shifting to favor [00:14:00] independent artists right now? How is it a great time to be an independent artist? And on the other side, how do you feel it might be moving away or getting more challenging for you as independent creators?
What's changed in the past couple of years? What's happening right now?
The Phronetic: I will start, I think, right now so much is placed on the independent artist because of social media. Labels have been able to outsource all of their marketing back to the artist by themselves. I. And I think that is why there's so much pressure right now on us as independent artists in order to carry all that marketing, to do all the music ourselves, to do all the video, to do everything. I mean, of course the labels always needed, the music, the labels always needed. The artist, the label always needed the brand, the people behind the brand. But now they need us more than ever because people are. Tuning into, individual brands more than ever because of social media.
I mean, if you even just scroll on social media on, or for example, TikTok, and you go on Avir [00:15:00] viral video, you have. So many household name brands commenting like funny things like, you know, trying to make jokes in the comments because everything's personalized now. I mean, I think like seven 11, they're known for dropping like out-of-pocket comments on TikTok videos. So it's like everything is getting more personal, more personal, more personal, more personal. And I think that's an opportunity. And I think it's a challenge. I think it's a challenge because I, like I started off with, it leaves everything on us. Maybe not everything, but a lot on us. but it's an opportunity because it gives way for us to do things the way that we authentically want to do them. And I think, social media has shown people, even more, kind of what I was talking about earlier, is that authenticity is gonna be key. You can't fake your way into anything. it's a double-edged sword. I mean, you can take it. How you wanna take it. If you wanna say, oh, it's a big challenge, I gotta do everything myself, then perhaps you won't wind up doing what you need to do to keep up. But if you're on the other side and saying, okay, this is an opportunity for me to really showcase who I am, then you're gonna thrive.
[00:16:00]
Clara: Heart agree. But it's interesting because let's say I zoom out a little bit, I see, you know, being in the industry for such a long time, for me, I was always told by labels. When I was, a lot younger, that I couldn't do things like, I've played the violin since I was four, so I wanna make pop music and I wanna play the violin.
They're like, no, you can't do that. So then it was like, oh, I discovered the theramin. That was like, that's insane. There's no way. That you can play the theramin in pop music like, and so the best thing to me about being an independent artist is that I can do it and then go on tour with like bare naked ladies with this, you know, in a stadium with my theramin and my pop songs and Ableton that, I learned how to create all of my tracks so that I could actually.
Realize my vision like that is an [00:17:00] incredible thing. But I agree so much with Alejandro that the really challenging part is that all I wanna do as an artist is make music, is be creative, is, actually do the thing and in order to, In order to really do it, you have to be shooting. Like every time I do a show, I'm really thinking like, how am I documenting this?
Who's going to edit this? Because it's all of that that's going to lead to the next opportunity, and it really is a lot of pressure. And at the same time, I think if we zoom out in other huge challenge now is that I think there is overall within society a lack of understanding of how music is made. And I think that is a challenge because it makes it so that people are unclear of the value of music.
So, you know, people expect music to just be there. And even, the CEO of Spotify is like, oh, well it's [00:18:00] so, it's so great for artists now. it's so easy to make music. It's just, and I'm like, well, actually, it's. Really hard. It's emotional labor. It's manual labor. It's, I have to educate myself.
I have to learn how to produce a song. I have to know what snare drum to use. I, I, I have to like do all of this, um, extra work really, and, which is great, and I'm not complaining about it. It's just that then I present a song and people are like, oh, the song just happened. and that's why when like Alejandro, like the fact that you're showing people how that process and I'm trying to do that as well, is just show like, this is how you produce and isn't it fun?
And by doing that, the really exciting thing is I've seen how many people, especially in like underserved musical communities, like to me a lot of. Women are very intimidated by the world of production and gear and all of that, but they see me doing it and it's like. Oh, that's so cool. Like I could make a song and [00:19:00] I've just noticed that you really have to start from the ground up when you're explaining what even producing is what a producer is.
Because people they see the artists on stage, but they don't see the process that goes into that sound. And I think. There's something in that. that's such an opportunity. And so that's what I've really been focusing on in my own, work and just trying to figure out
Adam: Yeah. That, that's unbelievable, Clara. And you know, I, I, I just had a realization, which is, maybe obvious to you all, when we think of the artists that we love, we listen to their music. I. The way that the three of you have really shown your process on social media in particular, how many countless people have you actually inspired to like, pick up an instrument, get into music when you're previously intimidated by it?
I know for a fact that The Phronetic has done that countless times because I've been on the, I've been on the marketing end of it and I've seen it [00:20:00] work. And Clara, same with you. And we're just early in our friendship, so we'll get there. As well soon enough. you know, by opening, the door to that and really letting people within your process, you're really giving people a blueprint to follow for how you could make music that sounds like this.
it's, it's modern music lessons in a way. I'm gonna, push this, in, in a similar direction, but different question. Because this is all about careers and, and new career paths and the business behind being an artist so that artists can learn and that businesses can learn how to work better with artists.
I'm curious, you brought up Spotify, Clara, but when you think about your income as an artist today, what's driving it? Don't give us money specifics, but I, I would like to understand the pie chart a little bit better. Brand deals, direct fan support. there are some companies, some, some startups in the room that focus on fandom.
So is it merchandise, is it Spotify streams? Is it payouts [00:21:00] from Instagram and YouTube? I'm curious to know where your money comes from, all three of you and whatever level of specific detail you're willing to volunteer to the group.
Vivek: I, I can say on my side. all of those streams are definitely possible, and I think that's where the benefit of partnership can, can really come to play. I noticed that once I started growing on social, I was getting a lot of inbound gigs at first, whether that's opening for cultural events or other artists, um, that that's happened a lot.
And, and part of that's because they recognize the talent. And the other piece is because I had an audience. That I could help use to showcase and promote a show locally or nationally. brand deals have certainly come through around, Hey, this is a song or a topic that we'd be interested in having some, showcase the product on, or something like that.
And I think we all discuss this, that it's really about is that an organic alliance? And you know, is that something where it's related to the music that we'd want to make? And, I look at it as like when I'm a listener watching an artist, what I wanna watch. That video, [00:22:00] would I get excited about it? the opportunity area that I think is very interesting and that's very relevant to, to this room and the people that are in it, is that there are so many artists that now have huge audiences online, right? And whether they're independent or assigned to level that label, they, they have a connection to that audience to be able to showcase their music in brand new ways.
so I'm very, very bullish on the potential of. A new type of merchandise, because I think it's very symbiotic with the platform. So if we look at TikTok and Instagram, they provide a platform by which you can make a video and, build a fan base that's very engaged and, and loves you. What do you do with that attention? Right. And do you manifest that by getting a payout from those platforms? Yes. You can certainly do a brand deal. You can certainly push a show. I feel some of those are a little bit more episodic and harder to come by. Whereas if every video that you're making could result in, people falling in love with your songs, they wanna listen on Spotify, that's huge. If every video that you're making could, in some ways allow for some. [00:23:00] Product that you're selling that's bundled with your music, that, that's also really interesting. So, you know, one, one of the things that I've been experimenting with recently is I've, I've made a, portable speaker that looks like a cassette tape, but it comes bundled with my music, right?
And so I've just sold like a limited edition number of copies of this. but I'm hoping to do more of this with my music and also help other artists. But the test really showed me that I could introduce my music in a new format and use social media to actually get people to buy it.
Adam: Let me, let me ask a direct follow up question to that. I do see, my friends, my peers, musicians, there is a trend, you could call it backlash, you could call it complaining, which is like, 20, 30, 40 years ago, musicians just focused on music and releasing songs that didn't have to do all this, all this.
What, whatever you want to call it. Rigamarole, right? Social media is a chore. Why can't I just, focus on making music? Why? Why isn't that enough? I, I see these posts. I don't necessarily feel that way [00:24:00] myself, but I see them and I, I certainly understand the argument for it. you just talked about this speaker that looks like a cassette and we gotta see a picture of it when you can find one and, you got one in your pocket right there.
so clearly you are, you're inspired. That's beautiful. You're inspired by the challenge. Is everybody in the room inspired by the challenge or are you all done? Are you all spent on it?
The Phronetic: That's a great question. I think for me. The fun of all of this kind of was a, an acquired taste. Like the challenge became an acquired taste of fun. And now I'm like, okay, everything's changing so fast. So now everyone's doing social media. to go back to your question earlier, like for me, the bulk of my income was like, direct to fan, like selling beats and then also brand deals. But now because social media has completely exploded from when I started, the, the competition is way higher. And so I had to say, okay, [00:25:00] how can I figure this out so that way I can be sustainable in the next five years when it changes again? And for me, that's what I fell in love with, at least outside of the music and the videography stuff that I do as well, like. Running the business has become like my number one passion just outside of the art itself. but I know that it's not like that for other people, but I think a suggestion that I could make to anybody who's an artist in the room is to find a way to gamify all of this. I. Because it is going to be that struggle of, uh, handling that business side of things and figuring out how to be innovative business-wise alongside of your artist struggle. So if that means like teaming up with somebody, if that means like using, the tools that you have available to now, I mean, AI is a huge thing right now that you could use to streamline a lot of these processes, although it's controversial. whatever you can do to help you just get. This like Rubik's cube of like making money and how to stay on top of it. If you can gamify that, you will succeed because you always have to change. You're never gonna sit in like a new [00:26:00] pocket of like, of an income stream and be like, finally I made it. I'm good forever. It's always gonna change. Every business owner is gonna tell you the same thing. What works five years ago is gonna work today isn't gonna work five years from now. but you can't get burnt out from it. Like remember to take breaks and remember to go touch grass and go breathe outside air too sometimes.
But yeah, I.
Clara: Yeah, I think, I, like I agree with. Everyone. But I think diversifying my streams has been necessary and also super fun and exciting because like I, I do a lot of soundtracks. I end up like, you know, people come to me to license my clips. Like YouTube came to, they'll just be like, oh, I really like this thing that you did.
So, I do licensing and for ads. And all sorts, like I love live events. Live events to me are now, people are doing it again. And I think there's so much opportunity to make those really immersive. And again, it's like the [00:27:00] technology that exists now is just making these things so. It, it literally, like, you can have an idea and then make it happen.
So like I released an album as jewelry. I am releasing my next album as a platform using Notion and Substack, and I'm releasing it as a deck of cards. Like, there's so many things you can do and you can just, you know that that is what keeps it really fresh and exciting. I'm doing a sample pack with blip blocks for, you know, their, for the, my tracks.
Like, there's just so many fun. Cool things you can do that. Yeah, it's hard. And it's not for, it's not gonna be for everybody. And I definitely think there are some artists who are not just interested in that, but I think, you know, if you really are that kind of person who's excited by the technology and more of a futurist and can see the use of something like.
AI and, figure out how it can [00:28:00] integrate into your practice. Then the, yeah, the sky's the limit at this point. It's just the access is so
Adam: What's something, it's a direct, it's a direct question to what you just said, Clara, but anybody feel free to answer what's something you're doing today that would've been unthinkable five years ago in your music or in your career?
Clara: I'm working on a platform. I can't say too much 'cause my business manager will get really mad at me, but it's like my biggest question is how to get the most people engaged in music creation as possible with the lowest barrier to entry. I. Now because there are so many kind of more open source technologies like Notion is just this amazing platform.
It's so modular, it lets you do so many different things. And because so many people are now also embracing technology and the creative process, I think the opportunity for that kind of interaction is really [00:29:00] new and. That's the thing that, I can't imagine five years ago being like, oh, I wanna create a virtual mixing board with all these sounds and being able to actually make that happen.
Adam: Uh, yeah, at the, at the risk of sounding uninformed, I, I haven't heard of somebody using Notion to, to do anything like that, so I, I'll, I'll have to do my homework on
Clara: No, I, well, I don't think, I've always loved doing different things with tools that, like for example with the theramin, it's like most people think the theramin iss a sound effect. It's like, actually the theramin is such a versatile instrument. It can be used in any genre. It's like very accessible to people.
Anyone can. Play it. But you do have to practice a lot in order to get good at at it. But I think it's like recontextualizing, the technologies that are available, that's really, that's why people can say, oh, it's all been done. And I'm like, but it hasn't been combined in this specific way because nobody's been here before.
So, you know, taking the technologies and [00:30:00] modifying them for your purpose is something that I think, you know, is.
Adam: that's great. Here's a question that I think everybody in the room could benefit from hearing a take on. Everybody's interested in community building. Facebook ads stopped working three years ago where we're all trying to navigate this new landscape of whether we're a B2B company, or we're selling a product.
Everybody has the same issues right now. it's tough out there for. Big in small companies, so everybody's talking about community building and artists naturally do it well. There are some brands out there doing it Well. Let's get really specific. How do you all approach building community? And fan engagement.
I'm curious to know your general strategy. I'm also curious to know the tools that you're using. Is it on Discord? Is it on Patreon? Is it just still Instagram is leading the charge with all of this? or should brands be [00:31:00] paying more attention to other platforms here? You mentioned Substack layer, you mentioned notion.
I wanna. put the spotlight on you, if that's okay. and start with you, with this question. Your community is ravenous for some of the mashups on TikTok, for instance. but where else are you finding ways of building community? Or is it better to stay small? No wrong answers, but I'm just curious to know how you're all thinking about building community right now.
Vivek: I have been very, very. Impressed and surprised by what has happened on TikTok. for me, the level of engagement isn't just people watching videos or liking stuff. They're, they're commenting. I respond to every single comment that comes through and that touch point is something that is so rare for an artist to do that when the fan experiences it, they're just. In shock. but I think at the end of the day, these are customers, right? These are listeners, these are fans. They, they, they're [00:32:00] everyone. Right? And, and we, we should respect them just way we, like, we would respect any other person who's, you know. A potential lead for a business. so I benefit a lot from that engagement because then it's turned into, dms or, or emails that have, sometimes led to gigs or, supporting me in some way.
So I think that that's like one big piece of how you can take advantage of where people are and then build that relationship so they, become stronger fans. now in my case, what I try to do digitally is. I, I do have some music on Spotify and, you know, other stream platforms, but I've built out this virtual music world that I'm calling the Oasis, and it's kind of like a Burning man metaverse, where you can walk around, explore different songs and, you can obviously sell digital and physical product through there. So. I'm posting snippets on TikTok and Instagram and engaging with people there. A lot of them want to hear full versions of my music, and then I move them to that site and I will both have full versions so they can stream and then if they want [00:33:00] to, hear a preview of something, want the full song, they can send me an email.
That's the way that I'm like capturing that lead so that when I release the full song, I can just send it to them.
Adam: I think we're all looking forward to hopping in the oasis.
The Phronetic: that's awesome.
Yeah, I was just gonna say, for me, a lot of that community building I brought offline and I spent, it was like four, maybe five years I. Of like specific focus on community building in person, putting on shows, helping to build the B community in my local area, traveling to other countries and working with their B communities and hip hop communities and all of that work was absolutely invaluable.
I mean, not to say that the work online doesn't matter, but. It changed my life. I used to have to worry about like pumping out a video every single day so that I could remain relevant and stay in people's, you know, top of mind. But the minute I started just like, hold on. Let me focus on what matters, which is like the [00:34:00] people that I'm hanging out with, like the people that I love the most, and the people who are inspired by those people.
And those people, and those people and those people. 'cause it's not just me, it's not, I'm not just like, you know, an artist in a vacuum. We're all artists. We all have to work together. And I think that companies, whether big or small, could. Move in that direction too. I mean, whether it's just like having more genuine connections with people, whether it's like, having, more personalized relationships between people who are handling the marketing and people who they're trying to market too.
You know what I mean? Like
Yeah,
For me, in person has been a game changer for
Adam: I, I, I predict, one of my marketing predictions is I predict a huge swing to. IRL events. and maybe that's obvious. Obviously we're, we're starting from zero post COVID. you saw it at Nam, you saw it at CES. we, attendance is, is gonna skyrocket and I think that the, the smaller events I.
the ones that brands put on themselves, [00:35:00] all of that is gonna take on a new life as we, navigate the new landscape here. Just a guess. I'd like to open up the floor to q and a. I'm sure that there's, we have a great, great crowd here, 46 people in the room. I'm sure people are chomping at the bit to ask a few questions here.
Eleanor, please kick us off.
Eleanor: Yeah. I just wanna ask, is there any brand deal you'd love to do? anything that a brand hasn't? Asked you to do that. You're just kinda waiting for.
Clara: I love to work with. color pot cosmetics. I would love to work with Chaney, the astrologer. I would love to work with some companies that are outside the space, but also, um, for example, like one thing that I love to do when I explain producing to people who aren't in the industry as I can compare it to, like makeup, to doing your makeup.
Well, when you're. When you're producing a song, you're layering these things. You've got your [00:36:00] foundation, you've got your bass, you have your glitter, you've got your highlight, your contour. Like there, it's kind of one-to-one. So I'm like to do a production workshop with a makeup brand, for example, would be so cool.
Or again, it's like I, I can translate somebody's birth chart into sound. Like that's a project I've been working on just in Ableton. So it's like, oh my God, I wanna do, you know, an astrology workshop, but. You know, Coachella with Chenny and you know, do people's sonic birth charts. Like those are the kinds of things where I'm just like getting out of the box and just, you know, trying to engage a bigger community in the magic and joy of producing music and making music.
Like, it's so fun. And I think, you know, sometimes, oh, it shouldn't be just limited to this more professional. Like some people will go on and be professional, but some people might just wanna sit at home and, you know, make beats and. Do their makeup. So I, yeah, that's for me, that's a very easy [00:37:00] answer.
Adam: I have a question. What's something that you wish brands knew before working with you? What's something you feel like brands sometimes get wrong and just a little education upfront? I. Might make them easier to work with.
How could brands become better partners to artists?
Vivek: I feel generally if brands, it's on the artist to be able to present themselves. in a full enough picture so that when the brand is coming across them, they know enough about them. And, I think that's when you start finding unexpected opportunities. for example, a lot of folks, sometimes they see a musician and assume, oh, they're just recording artists.
They don't know what they're like, live. Um, so I think it's important for artists to post live videos of what it's like to see them in a concert, and you're like, wow, they're, they actually sound really good. They, they're really interesting. Right? And, um, you know, again, like for, for Claire on The Phronetic, like these are very interesting product collaborations and product ideas that leverage your music that you, you guys have built, right?
And. Seeing some of that [00:38:00] packaged with the music itself, but keeping it top of mind so that when a brand comes across the profile, I, I think is super critical because then it gets their minds thinking around, oh wow. Now I don't just see this as music, I'm licensing or an artist that I'm having in my video, but I'm actually seeing the creativity of their entrepreneurship.
Clara: I think that brands should just know the artist. Like I was approached by Bert's Bees to play fly. Out of the Bumblebee on the theramin once, and I was like, I don't know that you understand the theramin or whatever. So we ended up figuring out what we could do. But that process was very funny and so I think there's just like a little bit of research of, knowing, yeah, I don't expect anyone to know what the theramin is necessarily, but just that was literally
Adam: Right that, that makes sense and brands should know by now that it is quality over quantity and finding the right partner is really what's going to help you achieve your goals. Let's go to [00:39:00] Chris Hazel, who's got his hand up.
Chris: So this is less about brands and more from the artist's perspective, but like one of the most interesting conversations that I've had with different artists, whether it's like Tetro or Sides or, or other people that we work with, is, you know, like being an artist in the modern era, the man's, uh. An exceptional amount of output.
Right? creative output. And one of the most interesting conversations for me has always been around creative sustainability. How do you manage that? 'cause everybody's a little bit different in the way that they approach that. How do you keep from burning out? How do you keep those creative juices flowing so that you feel like you're always engaging with your art, on your own terms in a way that you feel good about.
Vivek: I, I can say this as someone who just went through that rush over the last year, I remade, I released 52 new songs last year. So I did a new song every [00:40:00] week. and I think that was part of what was, what helped me with getting to exit velocity on my momentum. It was a lot of work. I, I, I don't want to discount that.
I mean, Monday and Tuesday I was working on a new song from scratch. Wednesday I was releasing it. Thursday I was, practicing my original content. And then during the weekend I had a gig. It was, it was a lot. and I'll admit that I did not sleep very much, getting a lot more sleep now. and part of that is, understanding that it's a practice, right?
As opposed to, Oh, it's, it's, uh, it's a lot of work. It's like, oh, I actually kind of find it feel fun to be like, okay, I'm gonna sit here now and I'm gonna challenge myself. Like, can I make something beautiful in, in a short amount of time? And it doesn't mean that, uh, the other piece is, it doesn't mean there's pressure that everything has to be amazing.
Some of the most beautiful art that I've made has gotten no views on the internet and things that I spent no time on ended up getting a lot of traction. So, that was part of the detachment that happened as a result of becoming [00:41:00] prolific. so that's, that's the biggest thing that, that I've learned from this in terms of burning out and all that.
I, I think that's, that's potentially very real and, but I think detachment and understanding that just like any other career, it's a job, makes it a little bit easier.
The Phronetic: I think for me, compartmentalizing everything that goes into running my business day to day and then setting out days or even weeks or sometimes even months to. Just worry about that task. Like, to be honest, I'll have entire weeks, multiple weeks where I won't even make music at all. I won't even open up the D like for a personal project because I'm taking out the time.
Okay? This week I'm gonna focus on video. This week I'm gonna focus on admin. This week I'm gonna focus on music, and at least for me it works. 'cause if I'm, I've done that before, just like sitting in the studio for like 12 hours at a time, just like making beats or mixing something, and that's when I burn out, that's when your ears start to literally hurt.
but another side of it too is to really prioritize delegating and getting help. I really had to learn the hard way how important that is. I mean, [00:42:00] there's no company out there that grew with one. Person completely by themselves. And it's hard as an artist because we do have ego to give up, that sense of control, but it's absolutely essential.
So if that just means like setting out a little bit of your budget so that you could get some help with something, it's really gonna make a huge, huge, huge difference.
Clara: I think that also for me it's important to balance the, to make sure that there's some work that I'm doing. Like it, it's kind of what Alejandro was saying about the community work, that there's work that I'm doing that I just feel feeds me back. 'cause as a performer, it's one thing to be always on and be on stage, but then it's like what are the opportunities?
Like where do you feel that the energy is actually coming back in? And I think. Being really aware of where you get energy is where as well as where you have to, give energy and making that balance out as best you can is really important. And for me, if I'm going into a school, I'm doing an afternoon of [00:43:00] like teaching, little girls about the theramin and getting them to.
Go home and ask their parents for a theramin for their birthday or something like that actually feeds me so much and I don't feel tired at the end of that. Whereas, you know, other things take more energy than, than I get.
Adam: Those. Those are great answers. And what I just heard there, Claire, is it kind of pulls you back to the original reason why you got into it in the first place,
Clara: exactly. Like remembering that and
Adam: workshops for Little Girl sounds absolutely adorable.
Clara: It's so
Adam: thank you for doing, thank you for doing the good work. Jade, we'll go to you.
Jade: Awesome. thanks for being here, everyone. this kind of is a follow up to the last question, but was there a moment when you, so in my mind, like. Content. Creating good content is almost like a full-time job. was there a moment when you decided to view it that way or was it more like waiting, waiting into it and, that's something I've just thought about a lot and I wondered what your opinion was on that.
Vivek: [00:44:00] I, I do look at, creating videos and music as a part of the job. when I started, I, I, I didn't really aggressively, Look at social media for distributing my music until late 2023. And when I started this concept of remaking Bollywood songs in English, I committed at first to making 12.
That that would be enough. That I would have an album, and if I saw positive data, that there was some reception to any. And by positive, I like a glimmer of hope, right? Like if, if someone interesting had, had commented, or if there's feedback, I'd keep going. I will say like the traction helped me make a commitment and that I was like, okay, this is gonna work.
And, and I was fortunate that it was the seventh video in the process where I went viral. So then in my head I was like, well, this needs to be what I do. I remember I made. I remade one song every day for a week until I hit like a hundred thousand followers. And then I committed to [00:45:00] releasing new ones, every week for the rest of the year, just because I thought it would be a, a, for myself.
Just a great commitment to that. Okay, I'm gonna do this. so, so I believe that there comes a point when the dazzle is gone and you realize this is what it is, then you can commit.
Adam: also. Is a good reminder of an intense amount of hard work.
Vivek: Yes.
Adam: we have time for one more question. I'll call on Rachel, uh, with the junior theramin player there on, on her lap.
Rachel: so I work in the live performance space and I wanted to ask y'all, because you're all kind of production wizards, what technology. Do you use, to translate what you create in the studio to the live performance and like what challenges do you face technologically speaking to translate what you do in studio to what you perform for a crowd?
The Phronetic: That's a great question. for me, I, I had that same question when I was first starting out, and then the way I. Just fixed. It was like, all right, I guess I'm bringing my laptop to the [00:46:00] show. I literally open up my daw, I hook up my drum pad and I just play, when I play in the studio, I understand that that's maybe not the best way to do things, and there's a lot of other people who have mastered the art of like using, you know, an MPC for example, or SP four four to completely, you know, X out the laptop. But for me, because I have like a lot of vocal effects and a lot of. Working parts behind the scenes. The laptop still has always been the way for me, and I think if you can really come up with a great workflow for it, there's nothing wrong with it. So for me it was just, yeah, bring the laptop.
Clara: I also brought the laptop, and then I use Ableton Live, I work in that in the studio, and then it translates to live. And then the issue that I had was people didn't understand that I was actually playing all the instruments in the tracks that they were hearing.
So then I. Started collaborating with VJs and projecting different versions of myself playing all the different instruments. So I have like a virtual band and [00:47:00] it's like a five girl, one girl band, I guess. And so that really, once I did that, it was like, okay, this is cool. This is actually a show. But I think it depends what kind of experience you wanna create.
And then just know that like there are plugins that integrate with Ableton now that produce beautiful visuals that are a hundred percent SYC to your music. again, it's just figuring out what you want to achieve and then what is the best and easiest. Tool to get you there. And again, figure out someone to collaborate with if you don't wanna take that on and you can make, make your world happen.
Adam: I think that I wanna be really respectful of people's times. I so super appreciate people joining us today. thank you to our three panelists, The Phronetic Vivek and Clara Shaylee. Why don't you give us your closing remarks here, and then we'll all be on our way.
Shayli: well, let's give all of our panelists one more virtual round of applause. [00:48:00] That was an exceptional panel and we're super grateful to have had all of your insight. just a reminder, before everyone runs off to their next meeting or breakfast or maybe a mid-afternoon nap, be sure to register for our next online event. Start Up, start Your Engines. You can go to music tectonics.com/online events to register for that, we'll be joined by Andrew Khan, managing partner at Yamaha Innovation Fund.
Let us know what you think! Tweet @MusicTectonics, find us on LinkedIn, Facebook and Instagram, or connect with podcast host Dmitri Vietze on LinkedIn, Twitter, and Facebook.
The Music Tectonics podcast goes beneath the surface of the music industry to explore how technology is changing the way business gets done. Weekly episodes include interviews with music tech movers & shakers, deep dives into seismic shifts, and more.
